Bamahuntin

How many times will a doe come into" heat"during the rut if for some reason she doesn't get bred during her first cycle? I guess my question is Will she continue to cycle until she gets bred, or is it just a one shot thing?

Every 30 days till she's bred.

Turkey_neck wrote:Every 30 days till she's bred.

10-4. Thanks

Just like some women, some does cannot conceive for a variety of biological reasons. These does, even though they enter estrus and are bred, continue to cycle into estrus every 28-30 days, and will do so 3, 4, and even 5 times. Basically, well into spring. In my opinion, it is these does that cannot conceive that are responsible for the majority of "2nd rut" and even "3rd rut" hunters often talk about (and can be observed through a number of processes). I say this because, having worked on some research projects in which does were killed very late in spring to collect fetal conception dates, we DID NOT find peaks in conception indicating a 2nd or 3rd rut, even though these cyclical peaks in rutting activity were observable. In essence, hunters were seeing a 2nd and 3rd rut, but there were no fawns being conceived (that we could find) during these later peaks of rutting behavior.

BSK do you think there is a scenario when a property has a lot of does that some of the older ones will actually come into estrous earlier than the majority of the group? I saw some pretty decent rutting activity last year during muzzleloader season but our breeding usually takes place the first week of January or so.
I had a few pictures this year of a couple of big fawn bucks that already had nubs about to break the skin while most of the fawns still had spots.
Is this a pretty common occourance? Last year was the first year I had hinted that property and some of they neighbors had told me that on some years they would have a small "thanksgiving rut". I never saw any type of activity like that this past season though.

I don't mean to interrupt, but I think I might be able to add something that BSK can consider before he answers.

Our property has the same "Thanksgiving rut" that occurs on the property you described. I checked the restocking records for our area, and deer from NC were restocked in an area nearby... close enough that some likely migrated the 15 miles to our property. The rut for some areas of NC matches the "mini" Thanksgiving rut that we see before the main Christmas rut for the property.

See Appendix I at the end of the report for the statewide restocking map:
http://actws.org/Resources/Documents/Al ... 202011.pdf

BrentM,

Certain aspects of deer biology appear to be extremely complex. Breeding dates is one of those things. Strong evidence exists for these dates be genetic and hereditary along the female line. At the same time, equally strong evidence clearly indicates--especially in the Deep South--these dates being malleable based on localized conditions and local herd structure.

To back up Edwardo's suggestion, I can show a dozen solid examples where I believe hereditary breeding dates are driving unusual patterns in localized peak breeding dates. At the same time, I can also describe a dozen situations where it appears that localized populations of deer--through Natural Selection--have adapted sometimes very unique localized breeding dates to best match specific localized conditions (to maximizing fawn survival). Then again, I have clear hard data showing where localized deer populations displayed fairly dramatic shifts in breeding dates as dramatic changes in herd structure occurred.

So what really are the driving factors in breeding dates: environment, genetics, socio-biology, something else? Honestly, I have no idea. In my opinion, the causes of localized breeding dates is one of THE big unknowns of deer biology.

Thanks for some good information BSK and Edwardo.

Thanks for the answers BSK. From what my neighbors that have hunted here for years tell me, the mini rut around thanksgiving sometimes is evident and some years it isn't. The weather was a lot better for daytime movement last year than this past season during the week of the muzzleloader hunt so I would think that would be a big factor It probably happens to some extent every season and we just don't realize it.

BrentM wrote:Thanks for the answers BSK. From what my neighbors that have hunted here for years tell me, the mini rut around thanksgiving sometimes is evident and some years it isn't. The weather was a lot better for daytime movement last year than this past season during the week of the muzzleloader hunt so I would think that would be a big factor It probably happens to some extent every season and we just don't realize it.

BrentM,

Are you in Jackson County? I ask because north of the state line, in southern TN, fetal conception date studies conducted by the TWRA found a real mix of peak breeding dates in the counties bordering AL and MS. There were "Tennessee" deer dates (late November) found in these counties as well as "Alabama" dates of early to mid-January. In fact, I have a client near the state line (on the TN side) and he definitely sees two peaks of rutting activity; one just before Thanksgiving and the other around January 10.

Birthdays and anniversaries

BSK I am in Jackson county but the south of the Cumberland Plateau and the state line. I reckon right on the state line the rut can shift dramatically in places. I think just across the state line the majority of the breeding takes place in early December